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admin
03-11-2009, 12:46 PM
Islamili (Aga Khani)

and their difference of belief from Muslims.


1. The Ismailis (followers of the Aga Khan) all professedly believe that the Qur'an was time bound and was not meant to be a Universal message for all times. They believe that their spiritual leader, Karim Aga Khan, is the "walking - talking Qur'an" and his "religious pronouncements", whatever they may be, are the "guidance" for the present times. The fundamental article of faith that there will not be any NEW revelations or "wahy" after the Qur'an, is being completely violated by the Ismailis.

2. The Aga Khan has officially Declared himself, before his followers, as the "Mazhar of Allah on earth". The word "mazhar" means "copy" or "manifest". Consequently, these Ismailis who call themselves Muslims do "sujood" before him. So even the primary axiomatic principle of Tawheed is being fundamentally and formally violated by them.

3. The Ismailis are not instructed to offer the Islamic Salaah, observe Saum or perform Hajj. They have replaced Salaah with certain shirk-infested Dua'as (thrice a day). They are told that their Hajj is a personal "Glimpse" (Deedaar) of Karim Aga Khan.

4. The Aga Khan and his appointees 'forgive the sins' of the followers on regular basis. Ismailis are misled into believing that they will not be questioned on the Day of Judgment for the sins that are already forgiven in their Jamatkhanas (community centers). Forgiving of sins is the exclusive prerogative and privilege of Allah (swt) alone. Qur'an 3:135.

5. Against this backdrop, most of the poor (spiritually poor) Ismailis who are not introduced to al-Furqan are confused and misguided. Hence, Ismailis are very easy prey to missionary efforts by various Christian groups and Baha'is. I have known a couple of young ex-Ismailis who are today preaching "Pauline Christianity" to Ismailis as evangelical missionaries.

6. Karim Aga Khan's own daughter Zahra having married a practising Christian has opened the gates for young Ismailis girls to follow the footsteps of a family member of their beloved Imam-e-Zaman. The parents of the Ismaili girls who wish to marry outside of Islam have no recourse but to let them go.

7. The Aga Khan has made Halaal for the Ismailis that which Allah has made Haraam for the Muslims. Taking of interest (usury) is not forbidden by the religious instruction classes run by the "Tariqaah" board of the Ismailis. As a matter of fact, the much publicized "Venture Capital" program (details on the website of FORBES Magazine - search under "Aga Khan"), of loaning funds on interest by the AKFED (Aga Khan Fund & Economic Development), has been a great success. Similar entrepreneurial projects are now being actively promoted and introduced to poor Muslims of Tajikistan and neighboring areas.

8. The Muslim Ummaah and the various Muslim leaders are not fully aware of these Un-Islamic acts and beliefs of this community of less than two million members, who claim to be the Ismaili Muslims. Surprisingly, their leader Aga Khan claims himself to be a spiritual leader of 15 million Muslims and a Direct Descendant of Prophet Muhammad (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam).

9. Earlier, one did not have authentic books on Ismailism, but it is not so anymore. There are two authentic books as well as one comprehensive web site exposing the inner practices of the Ismailis and the Proclamations (Farmans) of the Aga Khans. Hence, now you have no "hujjah" argument or excuse left before Allah (swt) for not taking up the task of inviting the misguided "Ismaili Muslims" towards the Deen of Allah (swt) and not safeguarding them from committing unpardonable sin of Shirk.

10. The Aga Khan in collaboration with so many Western powers and aid, has set up the world-wide Aga Khan Development Network (AKDN) which runs several institutions and service companies both in the profit and not for profit sectors. This network is very actively operating in Pakistan, India, Tanzania, Uganda, Kenya and Bangladesh, and has now started concentrating its efforts in Tajikistan and the neighbouring areas where there is a concentration of Muslims who have not known or openly practised Islam for the decades. By taking up economical, social, educational and rural development efforts through NGOs (Non-Govt. Organizations) within the AKDN, the Ismailis and the Aga Khan have gained wide acceptance amongst these countries and masses.

sunnyajmal
03-11-2009, 12:56 PM
OMG....very useful info....

sveetzara
03-12-2009, 10:37 AM
astagfirulla.... Na'auzubillah....

admin
03-13-2009, 10:31 AM
Some Religious ceremony of Aga Khani

sveetzara
03-13-2009, 10:38 AM
toba.... they r not muslims...

Candid
03-13-2009, 11:49 AM
Astagfirullah
Allah hi khair farmaye
JazakAllah Naveed Bhai for such info

KhanMS
03-14-2009, 06:47 PM
Very nice info brother. Jazak Allah Khair. Allah hum ko mehfooz rakhe (Aameen).

KhanMS
03-14-2009, 06:49 PM
Agar aap ke paas Bahai aur Bohri firqa ke barey main information ho tu zaror share karen.

Shukria.

simplecyberboy
03-14-2009, 08:15 PM
thik se study kiziye

SHAYLI
03-15-2009, 12:56 PM
ye sab likhne se pahele AGA KHAN ke baare me jaan lijiye baad me likhiye aap ne jo bhi likh hai sab galat hai
kuch bhi na likhe

faisalchill
03-15-2009, 12:59 PM
Dear

i must request you to first understand the philosophy and logic of the Shia Imami Ismaili Muslims and the importance and significance of an Imam in Shia Islam.
it seems you are looking at things what you consider good and bad. This will be destructive to the harmony among various groups in the society and also spreading the things without knowing will do no good to the peace and tolerance in the society.

faisalchill
03-15-2009, 01:06 PM
I must say spreading baseless information without any research and associating it to a particular sect is not according to islamic teachings and values.

sabercool
03-15-2009, 02:19 PM
thanks for the info naveed bhai..............but pls check the comments of "FAISAL".

sabercool
03-15-2009, 02:20 PM
Hey talha pls check can we post our contact number in signature.

sunnyajmal
03-15-2009, 02:24 PM
i think it doesn't matter if u feel secure...anyway i will let admin to answer it...

KhanMS
03-15-2009, 05:25 PM
@sabercool, I have joined 100 of forums and I always put my contact number in my signature and no one object it. Why you object it? Can you explain it? Any how I removed my contact number now but I need explanation.

Thanks

sabercool
03-18-2009, 12:13 AM
hey! just chill man.


I thought it is not allowed in our forum.

Thats y I have informed it to our moderator.

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 09:55 AM
wots the outcome then..?

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 09:56 AM
allowed or not allowed

sveetzara
03-18-2009, 10:09 AM
well i jusy want to say all of u... dont blame islam ok... islam doesnt allow us to even touch women (other than wives) so do u think aga khan is leading an angleic life??? infact no1 is... but dont involve islam in it... islam is totally different from these pics... and the people who ask persons other than Allah for their needs, are comitting Shirk... we r not allowed to ask for our needs except from Allah... i will codemn every friqa whose believers go to mizars and ask dead peoples to fulfill their needs... bla bla bla..... its Shirk....

sveetzara
03-18-2009, 10:11 AM
and whatever in this thread is absolutely true... they r just ruining th image of islam all over the world... hunh.... according to islam they shud be sentenced to death....

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 10:22 AM
wahh mufti sahibaa.............agar iss tarah kay do char mufti aur hoon ..............tou Allah hee hafiz haii

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 10:32 AM
how u can say that everything is "absolutely true". Do you know the person in the picture.? whats the relationship between the people.? Brother Vs Sister...or Father vs daughter.............

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 10:33 AM
i am not saying that they are doing some thing noble.....

sveetzara
03-18-2009, 10:33 AM
thanx for the comment... mei sirf wohi cheez follow ker rhi hoon jo Quran or Hadees mei hai.... ager mei amal nahi kerti to jaanti to hoon na k islam mei or baki bi'dat mei kia ferk hai... every1 shud atleast now the reality.....

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 10:34 AM
because I dont know the objective and philosophy of this custom or ritual..?

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 10:35 AM
In this regard I am also absolutely certain that this is not a ritual of Ismaili Sect.....

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 10:36 AM
This might be a ritual or exhibition of some other group.........

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 10:38 AM
yar everybody follows his or her way of life as per their religion

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 10:42 AM
but ..............do you know the statement .....Quran and Hadith ... it is a vast source of knowledge.......... but also debatable as far as Hadith is concerned and the explanation of the Quran is concerned

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 10:45 AM
Every sect has their own explanations of the verses of Holy Quran

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 10:46 AM
and Different volumes of compiled books on Hadith in ....Sunny and Shia Islam

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 10:47 AM
aur waisay bhee every one remains in the sect ..........in which he is born..........

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 10:48 AM
Have you ever heard of the people who have changed their religion on the basis of their own study and understanding.........I must tell you they are very rare

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 10:50 AM
and every body loves his or her religion/sect.........because he has grown up in that

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 10:50 AM
and he/she looks at things through those goggles only.

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 10:51 AM
I think you will agree with me...........?

sveetzara
03-18-2009, 11:29 AM
i m agree but what abt people who dont believe that Prophet Mohammad(PBUH) is not the last messenger of Allah... they do believe that there r others prophet after Him to be sent here... how ridiculous... how can they be muslims???? there r 5 basic components of Islam.... and 1 of them is to believe Prophet Mohammad(PBUH) as the last Messenger of Allah.... i m not talking abt shiya sunni firqas.... i m talking abt who r denying the 5 basic components of islam and whoever do so is not from us.....i hope u got the point now...

sunnyajmal
03-18-2009, 11:33 AM
yea rite zara, the people who do not accept these cannot be called muslims...

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 11:37 AM
Yea of course........in Pakistan this is the definition of a Muslim as per the constitution..........and this is the reason that Qadiani's are not considered Muslims here.

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 11:38 AM
And again this is our way of looking at things........because we have been hearing this since our childhood.......

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 11:40 AM
But unfortunately we do not know much about the Qadianias, for example,..........why they do not consider Prophet PBUH as the last Prophet of God?

sveetzara
03-18-2009, 11:40 AM
i totllay disagree here.... we must believe these 5 components of islam.... no way to deny them...

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 11:41 AM
you disagree because u r looking at things as a Muslim...

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 11:42 AM
For others there might be other important things...?

sunnyajmal
03-18-2009, 11:43 AM
correct bola..

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 11:44 AM
Yar ..........this is the beauty of the universe ............every one is unique........

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 11:45 AM
there is always right and wrong....good and bad.........day and night..........health and sick..........and so on

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 11:46 AM
we must accept this...........this is the built in feature of the universe

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 11:48 AM
every thing has an opposite in here..........and the wise thing is to accept it...........and respect the difference in the world

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 11:49 AM
and if we raise one finger on others ............you know the other four point towards us...........

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 11:50 AM
The outcome is...................I must say

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 11:50 AM
we should try to understand and learn about others

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 11:51 AM
and value the difference of opinion

sveetzara
03-18-2009, 11:52 AM
well... we r not talking what is rite according to the universe... we r talking according to the religion.... thats the point... and according to me i dont care 4 whatever religion some1 has.... infact we cant force any1 to believe our beliefs according 2 our islam.... so no more arguments here... all i said was just to create difference btw what is true and what is not true....

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 11:55 AM
"wot is true and wot is not true"................. I must say only God knows that

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 11:55 AM
every one believes that his religion is the best.........

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 11:57 AM
we must follow our religion and avoid raising fingers at others............

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 11:58 AM
outcome.............no two persons can think similarly even on religious matters...........

sveetzara
03-18-2009, 11:58 AM
hey comon... i m not arguing wid u that islam is best... (infact it is)... but here u can see i havent tried to prove it even a once... infatc only Allah knows and thats what He says in Quran... we r just assigned to follow His sayings...

why r u not taking it easy.... i wonder...

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 12:00 PM
waisay issee liyea tou kehtain hainn..........Jitney Mounn Utnee Batainn...........

sveetzara
03-18-2009, 12:02 PM
i m just supporting the things in Quran by Allah and His Messengers.....

i m not sayin it coz i just want to.... i m saying it coz we shud know the difference...

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 12:03 PM
I must urge you all to go through the following site to have a better understanding of the Ismaili Community..

iis.ac.uk/home.asp?l=en "

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 12:04 PM
of course add w.w.w at the start.........

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 12:06 PM
am posting an extract from this site for your information..........

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 12:07 PM
History

The Shia Imami Ismaili Muslims, generally known as the Ismailis, belong to the Shia branch of Islam. The Shia form one of the two major branches of Islam, the Sunni being the other. The Ismailis live in over 25 different countries, mainly in Central and South Asia, Africa and the Middle East, as well as in Europe, North America and Australia.

As Muslims, the Ismailis affirm the fundamental Islamic testimony of truth, the Shahada, that there is no God but Allah and that Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family) is His Messenger. They believe that Muhammad was the last and final Prophet of Allah, and that the Holy Quran, Allah's final message to mankind, was revealed through him. Muslims hold this revelation to be the culmination of the message that had been revealed through other Prophets of the Abrahamic tradition before Muhammad, including Abraham, Moses and Jesus, all of whom Muslims revere as Prophets of Allah.

In common with other Shia Muslims, the Ismailis affirm that after the Prophet's death, Hazrat Ali, the Prophet's cousin and son-in-law, became the first Imam - the spiritual leader - of the Muslim community and that this spiritual leadership (known as Imamat) continues thereafter by hereditary succession through Ali and his wife Fatima, the Prophet's daughter. Succession to Imamat, according to Shia doctrine and tradition, is by way of Nass (Designation), it being the absolute prerogative of the Imam of the Time to appoint his successor from amongst any of his male descendants.

His Highness Prince Karim Aga Khan is the 49th hereditary Imam of the Shia Imami Ismaili Muslims. He was born on 13 December 1936 in Geneva, son of Prince Aly Khan and Princess Tajuddawlah Aly Khan and spent his early childhood in Nairobi, Kenya. He attended Le Rosey School in Switzerland for nine years and graduated from Harvard in 1959 with a BA (Honours) in Islamic History. He succeeded his grandfather Sir Sultan Mahomed Shah Aga Khan on 11 July 1957 at the age of 20.

Spiritual allegiance to the Imam and adherence to the Shia Imami Ismaili tariqah (persuasion) of Islam according to the guidance of the Imam of the Time, have engendered in the Ismaili Community an ethos of self-reliance, unity, and a common identity. In a number of the countries where they live, the Ismailis have evolved a well-defined institutional framework through which they have, under the leadership and guidance of the Imam, established schools, hospitals, health centres, housing societies and a variety of social and economic development institutions for the common good of all citizens regardless of their race or religion.

During the course of history, the Ismailis have, under the guidance of their Imams, made significant contributions to Islamic civilisations, the cultural, intellectual and religious life of Muslims. The University of al-Azhar and the Academy of Science, Dar al-Ilm, in Egypt and indeed the city of Cairo itself, are testimony to this contribution. Among the renowned philosophers, jurists, physicians, mathematicians, astronomers and scientists of the past who flourished under the patronage of Ismaili Imams are Qadi al-Numan, al-Kirmani, Ibn al-Haytham (al-Hazen), Nasir e-Khusraw and Nasir al-Din Tusi.

sveetzara
03-18-2009, 12:13 PM
whatever... we r Ashraf-ul-Makhlooqat... so we can observe or see difference btw truth and fake.... my inspirations r Allah, Quran and Hadees... they three r same...

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 12:17 PM
it is said..................Limited Knowledge is always dangerous

In urdu..............Neem Hakeem Khatrey Jaann

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 12:21 PM
to differenciate b/w good and bad...........one must fully equip himself with the knowledge of Deen Aur Duniya

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 12:36 PM
Deen aur duniya.........means all religions and whole universe...?

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 12:36 PM
zara .........lagta haii..............this discussion will never end......

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 12:37 PM
so we must end with this note ..........

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 12:37 PM
kee........ no two people can think similarly.............

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 12:38 PM
laikin bath aisee hoo kee zehn........manney koo tayar hoo

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 12:40 PM
batth logical hhona must haii

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 12:40 PM
aur abb tou logics pay tou purii books likhee jateen hainn

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 12:42 PM
aur chunkee hamm apnee batthoun koo hee sahii mantay haii.............aur doosroon kee raiii ka ehtiram nahii kartay.........

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 12:43 PM
shayad issi liyea looog hammay extremists kahtain haiin

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 12:43 PM
0r we force them to accept our point of view

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 12:53 PM
knock knock............hello zara tou ghaib hee hoo gayee

faisalchill
03-18-2009, 12:53 PM
or.......may be u r on lunch break.......

admin
03-18-2009, 04:32 PM
and who are ahmedi or qadiyani's??

admin
03-18-2009, 04:34 PM
please try to reply in one post , otherwise it will be very difficult to read ur answer!!

djawal
03-18-2009, 05:17 PM
please try to reply in one post , otherwise it will be very difficult to read ur answer!!

ironic you should say that..
anyway your plate is dope man

sveetzara
03-18-2009, 11:07 PM
hmm.. faisal by the way i m not convincing here.... extremist sey to poori duniya bhari hui hai... fiker not hamarey neighbours emi b extrimists hain west mei be extremists hain... is baat ki fiker chor do k sirf hum log hain... wo or baat hai k bd-naam sirf muslims ko kia hua hai... werna sab jantey hain k partition k wakt or us sey pehley or ab tak KON extrimist hai.....

faisalchill
03-19-2009, 10:54 AM
agreed zara.........extremists tou har society maii hotain hainn......

sveetzara
03-19-2009, 11:03 AM
thank God... atleast u agreed wid this point... ager hum log khud ko extremist bolein gey to duniya ko to khudi moqa miley ga na??? hum log nahi hain ham sab ko extrimists kehney waley pehley apney gir-e-ban mei zroor jhaank lein....

faisalchill
03-19-2009, 12:55 PM
religion maii extremist..........
love mai.....extremists.........
Hate maii....extremists........
Friendship mai...........extremists...........
Apnay Kam maii extremists.............

and so on..............................

faisalchill
03-19-2009, 12:56 PM
Forum Admin asked about Ahmedya/Qadiani's...

faisalchill
03-19-2009, 12:58 PM
"The Founder of the Ahmadiyya Movement, Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian, laid the foundation of this Movement at Qadian, a small village in India, over a hundred years ago.

A few years after the demise of the Founder, the Ahmadiyya Movement split into two groups, the Lahore branch and the Qadian branch. The first website represents the former group."

The following are their official sites...........u can learn more about them and their beliefs..........

Source: 1)ww aaiil dot org and 2) ww alislam dot org

sveetzara
03-19-2009, 12:58 PM
religion maii extremist..........
love mai.....extremists.........
Hate maii....extremists........
Friendship mai...........extremists...........
Apnay Kam maii extremists.............

and so on..............................

what do u mean by that????

faisalchill
03-19-2009, 01:01 PM
Ahmadiyya beliefs do not conflict those of Islam in general, including belief in the prophethood of Muhammad, reverence for historical prophets, belief in a single creator God (strong monotheism). They accept the Qur'an as their holy text, face the Kaaba during prayer, accept the authority of Hadiths (reported sayings of and stories about Muhammad) and practice the Sunnah.

Source: Wikipedia

faisalchill
03-19-2009, 01:05 PM
zara.........iss ka matlab maii...........har field of life maii extremists hoo saktainn haiinnn...

admin
03-19-2009, 02:02 PM
"Source: Wikipedia"

ye perh ker mujhay buhut hairat huwi.

==========================

anyways
you mean to say k qadiyani bhi muslims hein. brother i just want to check your answers. no more questions.

faisalchill
03-19-2009, 02:26 PM
Agar aap ke paas Bahai aur Bohri firqa ke barey main information ho tu zaror share karen.

Shukria.



with reference to the request.............. Dawoodi Bohra is a sect of Shia Islam.

The DB community traces its spiritual heritage from Prophet Mohammed and his Vasi Amirul Mu'mineen Moulana Ali, son-in-law of the Prophet, and continuing through their successors, the Imams, who, functioning first from Medina, spread over to North Africa and Egypt in the succeeding centuries.

Imam Al-Mehdi Billah set out for North Africa and established his religious kingdom in Tunisia and the adjacent territories. He was succeeded by three Imams and the fourth, the celebrated Imam Al-Moiz Ledinillah, established his seat of authority in Egypt.

While for details check out the official website..................

Source: ww mumineen dot org

faisalchill
03-19-2009, 02:37 PM
Since I dont know much about them..........so I provided some information and sources about their belief........

faisalchill
03-19-2009, 02:39 PM
However, its not pertinent........how I feel about them. The important thing is to know about them before commenting about them.

faisalchill
03-19-2009, 02:41 PM
Anywaz I have not said that they are Muslims or something else........Aur na hee meray pass itna knowledge haii ..ki kisse koo Kafir Declar kar dooo

I simply quoted the information how they regard themselves and thats why I mentioned the sources......

faisalchill
03-19-2009, 02:58 PM
"The Dawoodi Bohras believe that there is one God (Allah); that Prophet Mohammed (SAW) is his Rasul (Messenger); that Moulana Ali (AS) is the Vasi of Prophet Mohammed (SAW); that Moulana Ali (AS) was succeeded and will be succeeded in perpetuity by his direct male descendants as Imams; that the 21st Imam went into seclusion, and that there is on earth today and will always be an Imam by regular unbroken chain of succession, who heads and governs the ‘Dawat’ which is the mission of Allah on earth; that the Imamate shall continue in the direct descendant of the Prophet (SAW) and the Dawat shall be permanent until the Day of Reckoning, the two being inseparable; that during the period of seclusion of the Imam, the Imam’s Vicegerent and Representative, namely al-Dai-al-Mutlaq appointed by ‘Nass’ (declaration) heads and governs the ‘Dawat’ exercising the full authority and powers of the Imam; that during the period of seclusion there have been 51 such Dais-al-Mutlaq from Syedna Zoeb (AQ) to Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb (AQ) and that Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin (TUS) the present Dai-al-Mutlaq, is the 52nd in an unbroken chain of succession extending over 850 years."

Source: ww dot mumineen dot org/archive/essays/faith-of-the-dawoodi-bohras/

innocent_shanu
03-22-2009, 07:58 PM
Thankyou so much for this information...but wats happening in these pics..y this aga priest is kissing women feet..Is this some kind of religious act.plz if u knw .do tell me.thanku once again

sveetzara
03-23-2009, 12:39 AM
shanu its not religious act....

faisalchill
03-24-2009, 12:31 PM
Thankyou so much for this information...but wats happening in these pics..y this aga priest is kissing women feet..Is this some kind of religious act.plz if u knw .do tell me.thanku once again

I have not seen or heard such an act in any sect of Islam including Aga Khanis. I have heard that this is a particular group lead by the person in pics.

faisalchill
03-24-2009, 12:36 PM
shanu............in this regard, he or any member of his group might be the right source to inquire about the logic and philosophy behind such an act.

faisalchill
03-24-2009, 12:45 PM
we also know kee ...."Maa Kay Qadmoon Talay Jannat Haiii".

Kia yea iss Hadiths koo demonstrate karney kee koshish tou nahii...?

sveetzara
03-24-2009, 12:54 PM
faisal wo us ki maa hergiz nahi hai.... Islam ko apney mutabiq kerney sey pehley zaroor soch lena chahiye... apni asli(real) maa k ilawa baki sab na mehrim hain.... if u know that....

faisalchill
03-24-2009, 01:10 PM
hmmmmmmmmmm.........zara jee........hoo sakta haii woo unn koo maa aur behnainn samajta ho...

ya wa khawateen unnn koo kooo apna abba jee samajtain hoon,,,...?

sveetzara
03-24-2009, 01:16 PM
faisal mei in cheezon ko nahi maanti is ki b logic hai... jab munh bola beta ya beti waris nahi ho sktey un k wo rights nahi hotey.. even k munh boley betey ki wife sey shaadi ker sktey hain uski divorce k baad... jab k asli betey ki wife hamesha k liye haram hoti hai fath-in-law per...

her gheir orat or merd chahey usko maay kaho ya bhai ya baap, ya behan,,,,(infact hum log is time niyat ki bat nahi ker rahi. logic ki baat ker rahey hain ... Niyat kon dekhta hai Allah k siwa) wo hotey na mehrim hi hain... we cant even touch them...

faisalchill
03-24-2009, 02:26 PM
In true spirit of Islam ........all Muslim men and women are brothers and sisters unless they have bound themselves in matrimonial relationships or otherwise.

faisalchill
03-24-2009, 02:30 PM
Zara this is an interminable discussion.........and thats why there are so many schools of thought on a single issue in Islam.

sveetzara
03-24-2009, 11:10 PM
ifact brother sis honay ka matlab hai dil mei respect hona but we r not suppose to touch any1... ager hum log khud aesa nahi kertey to atleast reality to pata honi chahiye... mei galat ko galat hi bolun gi... even i m not a true muslim... but i know what is true...

faisalchill
03-25-2009, 11:26 AM
zara........this is still debatable.........

faisalchill
03-25-2009, 11:29 AM
i value u r opinion............but this is something related with Niyat........

"Amaloon Ka Darumadar Niyatoun par Haii"

sarn
03-27-2009, 09:16 PM
@faisalchill i really appreciate you ! you did well in the thread by clearing a few things very politely but its too optimistic to think that he is doing this as in sisters / mother /brother relation with amal ka daroomadar niyat pay hai
and i agree with zara kay yeah faaail kataiee durast nai aur na islam may is ke gunjaish hai na mahraam kay pair chonay wala dont know whats the logic and justification behiend it

sveetzara
03-28-2009, 02:04 AM
Faisal ager amaal ka dar-o-madaar niyaat per hai... to kisi ka b murder kr k keh do k meri intentions to bht achi thi'n... ye baat Quran mei hai bilkul theek hai lakin it doesn't mean k is ka matlab apni merzi k mutabiq ley lo...jahan dil kiya isko flexible ker lo....

namehrim , na mehrim hi hai...

and by the way step father bhi na'mehrim hai aik lerki k liye.... or isi tra step mother b na'mehrim hai lerkey k liye... or mei to usii islam ki baat ker rhi hoon jo Allah ney Quran or Hadess ki surat mei hum tak pohnchaya hai... and i will disagree with whatever is not in islam... or mei is time kisi firqey ki baat nahi ker rahi... jab Quran nazil hua tha na tab ye firqey nahi they... or mei b usi time k Quran k mutabiq keh rhi hoon... wesey be mei yahan kisi ko convince nahi ker rhi... infact reality bta rahi hoon... ye thread bht non muslims b dekh hi rahey hon gey.. aesa na ho k hum log kisi ko mislead kerein.. so dont argue on ur personal opinions.. say whatever is in islam... dont change it according to ur own will... ager hum log sachey Muslim nahi hain to we dont have any right to mislead others. and we shud know what is reality... amal kerna or na kerna aik personal matter hai..... lakin sach pata hona chahiye...



thanx sarn.

faisalchill
03-28-2009, 09:49 AM
@faisalchill i really appreciate you ! you did well in the thread by clearing a few things very politely but its too optimistic to think that he is doing this as in sisters / mother /brother relation with amal ka daroomadar niyat pay hai
and i agree with zara kay yeah faaail kataiee durast nai aur na islam may is ke gunjaish hai na mahraam kay pair chonay wala dont know whats the logic and justification behiend it

sarn....in the current scenario i think the best way would be to get the opinion of the people involved in the act.This would be good in understanding the logic and philosophy. what they want to demonstrate by this act?

faisalchill
03-28-2009, 10:02 AM
Amal Ka Daroomadar Niyatoun Par Haii................aur Niyatain Janenney wala Allah hee haii.......Humans are not perfect so our opinion may be wrong.......since we are humans so we do have an opinion as per our knowledge base.

zara jee.....I respect your values and beliefs as per Quran and Hadiths.......but there are other people in Islam who consider
Quran and Sunnah,or
Quran and Hadiths or
Quran, Hadiths and Imams as their source of quidance

etc

admin
03-28-2009, 10:34 AM
Faisal if it is the case , can any woman go to Hajj with any Na-mahrem ??? because you have quoted that all muslims are brothers and sisters, She and He , if have intentions like brother and sister , can they go for Hajj together ???

you are right about intensions , you are right we should be open minded , but keep in mind , Women used to come to our Holy Prophet peace be Upon him , and i have no example that He ever treated any women like that..........as shown in pics.

Here is an example from the life of Holy Prophet (Peace be upon him)

I dont remember in details , but in short....., woman who came for bait to Holy Prophet.... (i cant get the right english word for "Bait") , the woman perform bait in a way that she dont touches The Holy Prophet (Peace be Upon him)

aur aaj aap kisi bhi Dubba peer ko deikh lo , wo bait k naam per women say wo salook bhi ker deitay hein jiss ka ziker yahan per nahein ker sakta.


Life of Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) is a pure example of practical Islam for us.



All muslims are brothers and sisters in Islam , but this issue has nothing to do with mehram and na mehram.

if all women are our true sisters , then brother i think we can not marriage any muslim girl

All muslims are brothers and sisters , but take this as a direction for unity , and brotherhood between muslims. they should try to deal with other woman like their own sister and mothers.

so All muslims are brothers and sisters , but you cant drive a RULE from it , but you can take it as a Moral Instruction.

sveetzara
03-28-2009, 12:28 PM
i m totally agree with admin... especially being bro sis means we need to be united.... otherwise if it is so then y Prophet Mohammad(PBUH) married Hazrat Zaid Bin Haris's wife (after their divorce) ??? bcoz he was not His real son... they dont have any blood relation....

or mei yahan refer ker deti hoon Surah-e-Infal mei hai k musalmano tm sab bhai bhai ho or Allah ki rassi ko mazbooti sey thaam lo.... or jahan b Islam mei bhai kaha gya hai sab muslims ko us ka purpose yehi hai k hum log unite rahein... mager afsos, hum logon me unity nahi or non-muslims mei hai....

admin
03-28-2009, 02:54 PM
May Allah Guide us to the right Path.

sunnyajmal
03-28-2009, 03:14 PM
aaaameeen...am agree to you admin...completely rite

Candid
03-28-2009, 03:51 PM
JazakAllah
Bahut sari batein maloom padi is topic se
Aur Faisal aur zara ke beech jo khasmakas hai usse Allah taala hi hal kar sakte hai
Beharhaal Faisal ji aapne kayee jumle khud ko sahi sabit karne ke liye kahe bahut jagah wo sahi hai aur aapne khud jawab diya hai
par manna nahi chaha

Main sirf do batein likhunga jo sabka jawab hai

pehli
LailahaillAllahmuhammadur-rasoolullah

Dusri

Agar pehli baat mante ho to Islam mein ho
par uspe yekin hai to Imaan mein ho
ur jab imaan hai to Quraan aur hadees ki roshni mein jo sach hai wo kabool hai


Bhai agar sagi maa ya saghi behan bhi hai to bhi islam mein unko iskadar nahi cuha ja sakta yani ki jab wo jawan ho jaaye to unke saghe bhai ya jawan saga beta bhi nahi cu sakta

sarn
03-29-2009, 01:06 AM
Agreed faisal

sveetzara
03-29-2009, 10:18 AM
obviously candid u r rite....

Candid
03-29-2009, 10:35 AM
Main nahi zara ye Allah ka farmaan sacha hai

sunnyajmal
03-29-2009, 10:37 AM
correct bola...candid

sveetzara
03-29-2009, 11:00 AM
thats what i kept saying in all my previous posts... rite?

sunnyajmal
03-29-2009, 11:14 AM
hmmm.....

faisalchill
03-29-2009, 07:43 PM
Issee Roozo shabb May Ullaj Kay Naa Reh jaaa
Kee Teray Zamann Au Makkan Aur Bhee Hainn

faisalchill
03-29-2009, 08:06 PM
Faisal if it is the case , can any woman go to Hajj with any Na-mahrem ??? because you have quoted that all muslims are brothers and sisters, She and He , if have intentions like brother and sister , can they go for Hajj together ???

you are right about intensions , you are right we should be open minded , but keep in mind , Women used to come to our Holy Prophet peace be Upon him , and i have no example that He ever treated any women like that..........as shown in pics.

Here is an example from the life of Holy Prophet (Peace be upon him)

I dont remember in details , but in short....., woman who came for bait to Holy Prophet.... (i cant get the right english word for "Bait") , the woman perform bait in a way that she dont touches The Holy Prophet (Peace be Upon him)



There is no doubt that shaking hands between males and females who are not mahrams (illegal for marriage) has become an intricate issue. Reaching an Islamic verdict on this issue away from extremism and dispensation needs a psychological, intellectual, and scientific effort based on the textual proofs of the Qur’an or the Sunnah.

faisalchill
03-29-2009, 08:09 PM
Firstly, it is prohibited to shake hands with a woman if there is fear of provoking sexual desire or enjoyment on the part of either one of them or if there is fear of temptation. This is based on the general rule that blocking the means to evil is obligatory, especially if its signs are clear. This ruling is ascertained in the light of what has been mentioned by Muslim jurists that a man touching one of his mahrams or having khalwah (privacy) with her moves to the prohibited, although it is originally permissible, if there is fear of fitnah (temptation) or provocation of desire.

Secondly, there is a dispensation in shaking hands with old women concerning whom there is no fear of desire. The same applies to the young girl concerning whom there is no fear of desire or temptation. The same ruling applies if the person is an old man concerning whom there is no fear of desire. This is based on what has been narrated on the authority of Abu Bakr As-Siddiq (may Allah be pleased with him) that he used to shake hands with old women. Also, it is reported that `Abdullah ibn Az-Zubair hired an old woman to nurse him when he was sick, and she used to wink at him and pick lice from his head. This is also based on what has been mentioned in the Glorious Qur’an in respect of the old barren women, as they are given dispensation with regard to their outer garments. Almighty Allah says in this regard: “As for women past child bearing, who have no hope of marriage, it is no sin for them if they discard their (outer) clothing in such a way as not to show adornment. But to refrain is better for them. Allah is Hearer, Knower.” (An-Nur: 60)

faisalchill
03-29-2009, 08:12 PM
Here the object of discussion deals with other than these two cases. There is no surprise that shaking hands with women is haram (unlawful) according to the viewpoint of those who hold that covering all of the woman’s body, including her face and the two hands, is obligatory. This is because if it becomes obligatory to cover the two hands, then it would become haram for the opposite sex to look at them. And, if looking at them is unlawful, then touching them would become haram with greater reason because touching is graver than looking, as it provokes desire more.

But it is known that the proponents of this view are the minority, while the majority of Muslim jurists, including the Companions, the Successors and those who followed them, are of the opinion that the face and the hands are excluded from the prohibition. They based their opinion on Almighty Allah’s saying, “And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent …” (An-Nur: 31) So where is the evidence on prohibiting handshaking unless there is desire?

faisalchill
03-29-2009, 08:15 PM
As a matter of fact, the most powerful evidence here is blocking the means to temptation, and this is no doubt acceptable when the desire is roused or there is fear of temptation because its signs exist. But when there is no fear of temptation or desire, what is the reason for prohibition?

Some scholars based their ruling on the action of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) on the day of the Conquest of Makkah. When he wanted to take the pledge of women he said to them, “Go, for you have given your oath of allegiance.” But it is known that the Prophet’s leaving a matter does not necessarily indicate its prohibition, as he may leave it because it is haram (forbidden), makruh (reprehensible), or because it is not preferable. He may also leave it just because he is not inclined to it. An example of this last is the Prophet’s refraining from eating the meat of the lizard although it is permissible. Then, the Prophet’s refraining from shaking hands with women (other than his wives) is not evidence of the prohibition, and there should be other evidence to support the opinion of those who make shaking hands absolutely prohibited.

faisalchill
03-29-2009, 08:19 PM
However, it is not agreed upon that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) refrained from shaking hands with women to take their oath of allegiance. Umm `Atiyyah Al-Ansariyyah (may Allah be pleased with her) reported another narrative that indicates that the Prophet shook hands with women to take their oath of allegiance. This is unlike the narration of the Mother of the Believers `A’ishah (may Allah be pleased with her) who denied this and swore that it had not happened.

It is narrated that `A’ishah, the wife of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), said, “When the believing women migrated to the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), they would be tested in accordance with the words of Allah, ‘O Prophet! If believing women come unto thee, taking oath of allegiance unto thee that they will ascribe nothing as partner unto Allah, and will neither steal nor commit adultery nor kill their children, nor produce any lie that they have devised between their hands and feet, nor disobey thee in what is right, then accept their allegiance and ask Allah to forgive them. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.’ (Al-Mumtahanah: 12)” `A’ishah said, “Whoever among the believing women agreed to that passed the test, and when the women agreed to that, the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) said to them, ‘Go, for you have given your oath of allegiance.’ No, by Allah, the hand of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) never touched the hand of any woman, rather they would give their oath of allegiance with words only.” And `A’ishah said, “By Allah, the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) only took the oath of allegiance from the women in the manner prescribed by Allah, and the hand of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) never touched the hand of any woman. When he had taken their oath of allegiance he would say, ‘I have accepted your oath of allegiance verbally.’” (Reported by Al-Bukhari)

faisalchill
03-29-2009, 08:23 PM
In his explanation of the saying of `A’ishah, “No, by Allah, the hand of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) never touched the hand of any woman …” Al-Hafizh Ibn Hajar said: she swore to ascertain the news as if she (`A’ishah) wanted to refute the narration of Umm `Atiyyah. It is narrated on the authority of Ibn Hibban, Al-Bazzar, Al-Tabari, and Ibn Mardawih that Umm `Atiyyah said in respect of the story of taking the oath of allegiance of women, “The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) held out his hand from outside the house and we (the immigrating women) held our hands from within the house, then he said, ‘O Allah, bear witness.’” In another narration reported by Al-Bukhari, Umm `Atiyyah said, “… thereupon a lady withdrew her hand (refrained from taking the oath of allegiance)…” This narration indicates that they (the immigrating women) took their oath of allegiance by shaking hands. Al-Hafizh said: we reply to the first saying that holding out hands from behind a veil is an indication of the acceptance of the allegiance even if there was no shaking of hands. As for the second narration, withdrawing hands indicates the postponement of accepting the pledge of allegiance or that taking the pledge of allegiance happened from behind a veil. This is supported by that narration of Abu Dawud on the authority of Al-Sha`bi that when the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) wanted to take the pledge of allegiance of the immigrating women he brought a garment and put it over his hands saying, “I do not shake hands with women.” Furthermore, in his book Maghazi, Ibn Is-haq is reported to have said that when the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) wanted to take the pledge of allegiance of the immigrating women, he would dip his hands in a vessel and a woman would dip her hands with him in the same vessel.

faisalchill
03-29-2009, 08:26 PM
Al-Hafizh Ibn Hajar said: it is possible that taking the pledge of allegiance happened on more than one occasion. Sometimes, it happened without touching hands by any means, as narrated by `A’ishah. Another time it happened that the women’s oath of allegiance was accepted by shaking their hands with the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), as narrated by Al-Sha`bi. A third time it happened that they dipped their hands in the vessel as mentioned by Ibn Is-haq.
The most correct view seems to be that it occurred on more than one occasion, if we realize that `A’ishah talked about taking the pledge of allegiance from the immigrating women after the Truce of Al-Hudaibiyah, while Umm `Atiyyah talked about what seems to be the oath of allegiance of the believing women in general.

faisalchill
03-29-2009, 08:54 PM
i think this is sufficient to make a judgment regarding "touching" women. However this is still debatable.....

meera84
03-29-2009, 10:12 PM
hum tu pata nhe kis dunya main zinda hain............... kuch maloom hi nhe tha agha khani's k bary main............
thnx admin.......

faisalchill
03-30-2009, 11:31 AM
In addition to this........ One may find in Islamic texts strong admonition against touching strange women. But the word "touch" or the like is, in this context, a euphemism for sexual intercourse.

faisalchill
03-30-2009, 11:38 AM
Examples of the verses of the Qur’an where the term lamastum(literally meaning touch) is used to refer to sexual intercourse:

In surat Al `Imran: 47, “She said: ‘O my Lord how shall I have a son when no man hath touched Me.’”, and in surat Al-Baqarah: 187, “But do not associate with your wives while ye are in retreat in the Mosques those are limits by Allah.” Thus the “touch” here means the private contact.

Ibn Taymiyyah argues: It is well-known that touching women is among the things that have become rampant and men always touch their wives. If touching one’s wife breaks wudu’ the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) would have told the people about it, and it would have been famous among the Companions of the Prophet (may Allah be pleased with them). No Companion of the Prophet has been reported to have renewed his wudu’ upon touching his wife or another woman, and there is no single hadith from the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) to support that.

faisalchill
03-30-2009, 11:45 AM
In addition to this if we are referring about the period of the prophet PBUH then ......

The tradition of early Muslim Society was for women to attend all public meetings and festivals. Authentic reports about life with Prophet (peace be upon him) give account of women going to attend the two Eid (festive days) prayers. Even those who were excused from prayer, would also come to attend the congregation.

maggy_boy
03-30-2009, 12:02 PM
faisal if u dont mind i want to ask about ur religion.. whether u r muslim or shia aur aga khani or qadyani.. ??? who u r??

faisalchill
03-30-2009, 01:37 PM
faisal if u dont mind i want to ask about ur religion.. whether u r muslim or shia aur aga khani or qadyani.. ??? who u r??

Tumhay Kia Lagta Haii .....?

admin
03-30-2009, 01:50 PM
Faisal if it is the case , can any woman go to Hajj with any Na-mahrem ??? because you have quoted that all muslims are brothers and sisters, She and He , if have intentions like brother and sister , can they go for Hajj together ???

you are right about intensions , you are right we should be open minded , but keep in mind , Women used to come to our Holy Prophet peace be Upon him , and i have no example that He ever treated any women like that..........as shown in pics.

Here is an example from the life of Holy Prophet (Peace be upon him)

I dont remember in details , but in short....., woman who came for bait to Holy Prophet.... (i cant get the right english word for "Bait") , the woman perform bait in a way that she dont touches The Holy Prophet (Peace be Upon him)



There is no doubt that shaking hands between males and females who are not mahrams (illegal for marriage) has become an intricate issue. Reaching an Islamic verdict on this issue away from extremism and dispensation needs a psychological, intellectual, and scientific effort based on the textual proofs of the Qur’an or the Sunnah.


faisal i think we should solve things one by one. i put only one question , that Our Holy Prophet has a way , that the woman bait him in such a way , that she dont touch the Holy Prophet. Now here please keep in mind , we are not discussing wars , nor mehrams , nor sex. I put an example from the life of Holy Prophet , which is in normal conditions , and which is for the religious activity.

Now i am putting this example because this is a related religious activity , that How our Holy Prophet performed , and how a man from a religious firqa , is performing. waiting for your reply on this single argument.

faisalchill
03-30-2009, 01:51 PM
May i ask maggy boy.........why you have categorized Muslims on one side while shia, aga khani and Qadiani on the other side..?

admin
03-30-2009, 01:55 PM
waiting for your reply faisal.

faisalchill
03-30-2009, 02:03 PM
faisal i think we should solve things one by one. i put only one question , that Our Holy Prophet has a way , that the woman bait him in such a way , that she dont touch the Holy Prophet. Now here please keep in mind , we are not discussing wars , nor mehrams , nor sex. I put an example from the life of Holy Prophet , which is in normal conditions , and which is for the religious activity.

Now i am putting this example because this is a related religious activity , that How our Holy Prophet performed , and how a man from a religious firqa , is performing. waiting for your reply on this single argument.

Hmmmmmmmm........I was responding to the matters raised by zara, candid and some of them related with your response regarding touching, hand shaking, mahrams/Na Muharams etc.

faisalchill
03-30-2009, 02:07 PM
As far as the person in the pics is concerned....... i have already stated that I have not seen such an act as a religious ceremony in any sect of the Muslims.

This seems to be an isolated group...........as per my info.

admin
03-30-2009, 02:14 PM
as i have researched , the man is NASIRUDDIN HUNZAI , this man was sent to jail, both shia and agha khani were angry at this
he paid in "rishwat" about 2-4 karor rupees in rishwat and went out of pakistan


=======================================

anyways i am not forcing you to say that the person is aga khani , i am just asking ur reply on my point. i want ur comments on that !

admin
03-30-2009, 02:25 PM
so u agree that this ceremony , can not be from any Muslim Group.

thanks.

faisalchill
03-30-2009, 02:26 PM
you mean comments on "Bait"?

faisalchill
03-30-2009, 02:40 PM
as i have researched , the man is NASIRUDDIN HUNZAI , this man was sent to jail, both shia and agha khani were angry at this
he paid in "rishwat" about 2-4 karor rupees in rishwat and went out of pakistan

======================================

anyways i am not forcing you to say that the person is aga khani , i am just asking ur reply on my point. i want ur comments on that !

I don't Know about the "Rishwat"...........However I agree with your other assertions.

In addition to your facts .........he is more than 100 years old...........he has got a Phd degree in spiritual sciences,...........and is a visiting professor at US,canada, uk etc.

sunnyajmal
03-30-2009, 02:52 PM
hmmmmm....interesting...

faisalchill
03-30-2009, 02:56 PM
so the pics ..........initially being portrayed as Aga Khani's ceremony turned out to be of Mr. Nasir Uddin's Private Ceremony.........

Thats why...........it is important that we do should post the things after a thorough research...?

admin
03-30-2009, 03:06 PM
who said its a private ceremony?

faisalchill
03-30-2009, 03:19 PM
you said it was Mr. Nasir uddin.........?and hence its his ceremony

faisalchill
03-30-2009, 03:23 PM
you also said both shia and aga khani were also angry.

admin
03-30-2009, 03:52 PM
as much i know , he is a scholar from agha khani firqa , but on these kinds of photos exposed , in which he was exercising these kind of things on the name of religion. people including shia and aga khani too protested against it. and police arrested that person. later on it was announced that he is removed from aga khani firqa. i cant authenticate all that material. but just sharing what i know.

faisalchill
03-30-2009, 04:44 PM
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ............................he was a scholar..........

As per my knowledge he has his own publications on Spirituality & Islam etc ........and publications on many other areas........and..... he has a small group of Murids. who love him like a saint.

However, Due to his similar sort of activities differing from main Aga Khani community he was removed from the firqa in 2000.

faisalchill
03-30-2009, 04:47 PM
I think these pics are his latest ...............some time in 2009.

faisalchill
03-30-2009, 04:51 PM
Further, he was a Aga Khani Scholar during 80s........however later he was removed from the office of scholar........ established his own publication network............named "Khan-e- Hikmat" meaning Place of wisdom.........

faisalchill
03-30-2009, 05:02 PM
He became popular through these pics........

faisalchill
03-30-2009, 05:10 PM
i mean known to so many people...............

admin
03-31-2009, 10:31 AM
faisal can i know your firqa?

faisalchill
03-31-2009, 04:25 PM
I am a true Muslim........

faisalchill
03-31-2009, 04:28 PM
and a good human ...................meray apnay khial kay mutabiq...............lol

faisalchill
03-31-2009, 04:29 PM
however i love to know about various sects of Islam.

faisalchill
03-31-2009, 05:00 PM
and other major religions of the world.

faisalchill
03-31-2009, 05:06 PM
i would suggest to have a forum dedicated to study the major features of all religions in the world.

maggy_boy
03-31-2009, 06:11 PM
faisal well i guess u r Shia.. coz the shiaz have the very good ability to ask question in response of a question.. they will never give u answer of ur any question..

faisalchill
03-31-2009, 07:06 PM
for MaggyBoy:

Sab Batainn Dill Kee Keh Dainn Agar
Phir Kehnay Ko Kia Reh Jaye Gaa

admin
03-31-2009, 07:50 PM
faisal well i guess u r Shia.. coz the shiaz have the very good ability to ask question in response of a question.. they will never give u answer of ur any question..



well said :lol:

mmontana_606
04-02-2009, 12:27 PM
we (as arabs)no nothing about them , thank you

mmontana_606
04-02-2009, 12:30 PM
very good reply naveed you are really strong to say such this thing(fact).

sunnyajmal
04-02-2009, 12:44 PM
hmmmm...correct bola

faisalchill
04-06-2009, 09:38 PM
faisal well i guess u r Shia.. coz the shiaz have the very good ability to ask question in response of a question.. they will never give u answer of ur any question..

well said :lol:

Buriii Bathh Shiaoon Ka Mazaq Nahii udaatay........

faisalchill
04-06-2009, 09:40 PM
There are good and bad people in every religion........and one should not abstain others on the basis of one or other pretext.

faisalchill
04-06-2009, 09:42 PM
in the similar fashion........The Public flogging of a teenage girl in swat .........must be condemned by every Muslim.

faisalchill
04-06-2009, 09:46 PM
faisal well i guess u r Shia.. coz the shiaz have the very good ability to ask question in response of a question.. they will never give u answer of ur any question..

hmmmmmmmmm........i dont want to comment on your guess......however u r raising a finger on commenting on Shias as a whole......... By the way there are so many Shias including

Shia Asnahree
Shia Imami Ismailee
Shia Bohras etc

faisalchill
04-06-2009, 09:52 PM
The basic sub sects of Shia Islam are

Shia Isna 'Ashariyah (Twelvers; the largest),
Shia Imami Isma'iliyah and
Shia Zaydiyah

admin
04-07-2009, 09:50 AM
in the similar fashion........The Public flogging of a teenage girl in swat .........must be condemned by every Muslim.

yes every muslim should condemn these things. actually they were not practicing Islamic Law but may be it was Pathan Law.

faisalchill
04-07-2009, 10:50 AM
in the similar fashion........The Public flogging of a teenage girl in swat .........must be condemned by every Muslim.

yes every muslim should condemn these things. actually they were not practicing Islamic Law but may be it was Pathan Law.

In the words of sunny...........correct Bola

samiullah khan
09-05-2009, 12:28 PM
SHYLI & Faisal Chill r u Agaa Khani.If yes then u shud tell what is reality.if u r not,then out of 10,may be 8 descriptions r right.What do u say.

Dalinder Modi
09-05-2009, 08:43 PM
To
The Thread starter/Admin
Nidokidos.

Last couple of weeks the name which was flooded all over media is "Jinnah".
Out of curiosity I tried searching in google for more information and I was shocked to know what is written about him.

The following is noticed during my search w.r.t "wikipedia"

1)Real name of jinnah was not Mohammed Ali Jinnah but Mahomedali Jinnahbhai.

2) He was "khoja" ... meaning Ismaili or Agha khani...

What I would like to know from you is put some light on this... I wish what I read is wrong. PLEASE.

sveetzara
09-06-2009, 01:18 AM
To
The Thread starter/Admin
Nidokidos.

Last couple of weeks the name which was flooded all over media is "Jinnah".
Out of curiosity I tried searching in google for more information and I was shocked to know what is written about him.

The following is noticed during my search w.r.t "wikipedia"

1)Real name of jinnah was not Mohammed Ali Jinnah but Mahomedali Jinnahbhai.

2) He was "khoja" ... meaning Ismaili or Agha khani...

What I would like to know from you is put some light on this... I wish what I read is wrong. PLEASE.


no way....totally fasle...

Haily
09-06-2009, 03:31 AM
Astaghfurallah.. may Allah save us, and guide them on the right path.. i have a questions.. i heard the name of the Agha khan hospital in Pak.. does that belong to this guy too?

sveetzara
09-06-2009, 06:38 AM
yea haily... its a vry famous hospital in karachi... but i dont have any idea abt ur ques...

Haily
09-06-2009, 11:48 AM
yea i kno about that... i was wondering if that belongs to him u kno....

sveetzara
09-06-2009, 12:07 PM
yea...

jugnoo
09-06-2009, 02:30 PM
yea i kno about that... i was wondering if that belongs to him u kno....

no Haily, Agha khan hospital doesn't belong to him ... it was built after so many years of Quaid-e-Azam ....

see the link ...

http://www.agakhanhospitals.org/akuh/index.asp

Haily
09-06-2009, 11:58 PM
thnx for the info jungoo.. yea i heard this name alot.. cuz when i was a kid in pak, i went to that hospital... nd when my family member is hella sick in pak, most of them are at that hospital... so thats how i knew about it....

nd where have you been.. hows ramadan on u.. hope everything is going well with u...

admin
09-11-2009, 03:03 PM
To
The Thread starter/Admin
Nidokidos.

Last couple of weeks the name which was flooded all over media is "Jinnah".
Out of curiosity I tried searching in google for more information and I was shocked to know what is written about him.

The following is noticed during my search w.r.t "wikipedia"

1)Real name of jinnah was not Mohammed Ali Jinnah but Mahomedali Jinnahbhai.

2) He was "khoja" ... meaning Ismaili or Agha khani...

What I would like to know from you is put some light on this... I wish what I read is wrong. PLEASE.

All the things quoted in wikipedia cant be placed in any Court of the world as a proof. this is a website which is made by contributers , users , posters ,any one can edit and add text in it.

wikipedia contain many controversial things......... and even if i believe the text written in wikipedia , it also mentions that this is a disputed issue. and if you see a hyperlink at that point , it refers to an article given at rediff website . where it is mentioned that in 1984 , high court announced jinnah as a sunni muslim.

admin
09-11-2009, 03:17 PM
Was Jinnah a Shia or Sunni?

Which sect of Islam did Mohammad Ali Jinnah belong to, Shia or Sunni?

Though it is commonly believed he was a Shia, Khaled Akhtar, a Communist, has evidence that the Quaid-e-Azam converted and became a Sunni later.

After Jinnah's death in September 1948, his sister Fatima and then prime minister Liaquat Ali Khan had jointly filed a petition in the Karachi high court describing Jinnah as a ''Shia Khoja Mohammedan'' and sought that his will may be executed under the Shia inheritance law. Again, when Fatima died in 1967, another sister Shirin Bai claimed her property under the Shia law.

But this claim was contested in 1970 by Hussain Ali Ganji Walji in the high court. He maintained that both Jinnah and his sister were Sunnis and hence the property be disposed of in accordance with the Sunni inheritance law.

Syed Sharifuddin Pirzada, who appeared as a witness in the case, said that in 1901 Jinnah broke from the Ismaili Shia faith and became a Sunni when his sisters married Sunnis. This may have been a result of the disapprobation expressed by the Ismaili community.

In February 1970, the court rejected the joint affidavit of Fatima Jinnah and Liaquat Ali Khan which claimed Jinnah was a Shia. By then Fatima Jinnah had already died.

But in December 1976, the court rejected Ganji Walji's plea against Shirin Bai's claim on Fatima's property under the Shia law. Which effectively meant the court had accepted the Jinnah family as Shia.

A high court bench reversed this verdict in December 1984. Now the court maintained that ''while the Quaid (Jinnah) was definitely not a Shia, the issue whether Fatima Jinnah was a Shia or not was also now open to for further inquiry''. Which suggested that Jinnah was a Sunni.

sveetzara
09-11-2009, 07:09 PM
i have heard the same thing admin... he was coverted sunni... and b4 coverting h was shia... and thats reality...

chmiq
09-13-2009, 05:29 PM
Dear

i must request you to first understand the philosophy and logic of the Shia Imami Ismaili Muslims and the importance and significance of an Imam in Shia Islam.
it seems you are looking at things what you consider good and bad. This will be destructive to the harmony among various groups in the society and also spreading the things without knowing will do no good to the peace and tolerance in the society.


can u please explain more clearly what u want to say??? do u mean that ismaili are not that mislead as briefed at start of this topic or they are so pure than thought?? can u help those who have a soft corner for ismailis? those who feel pain for worthless ness of these nerds?

admin
09-19-2009, 08:00 AM
The Basic Believe of a muslim is.... Allah is our Creator , and Prophet Muhammad Peace be Upon Him is the "Last" prophet of Allah.

and this is what our Kalima says. Any one who tries to modify this basic believe .......should not call him a Muslim and should not try to misguide others by calling himself a Muslim. This is the agreed principle stand of all the Muslim scholars.

sveetzara
09-19-2009, 10:12 AM
[email protected]

faisalchill
09-24-2009, 12:53 PM
The Basic Believe of a muslim is.... Allah is our Creator , and Prophet Muhammad Peace be Upon Him is the "Last" prophet of Allah.

and this is what our Kalima says. Any one who tries to modify this basic believe .......should not call him a Muslim and should not try to misguide others by calling himself a Muslim. This is the agreed principle stand of all the Muslim scholars.


Again you are quoting the Kalima of Sunni Muslims...............While Shia Muslims have an additional Statement in addition to the above mentioned.

I must say u are looking at the things through your own lenses. And I am not blaming you for this as you have been brought up in such an environment where its hard to accept other faiths of Islam and co exist peacefully. And this is root cause of disharmony in the society.

admin
09-24-2009, 01:44 PM
its the kalima of Muslims. i am not sunni i am not shia.

faisalchill
09-24-2009, 02:04 PM
But its a bitter reality my dear. you have to accept it.

admin
09-24-2009, 02:23 PM
the bitter reality is ....... that we have to draw a line between a muslim and non muslim. all muslims scholars (shia and sunni ) agree that Qadyanis are not muslims but Qadyani still claim that they are the REAL muslims. so we have to draw a line and we have to create a filter.

All those who agree by heart and Soul that Allah is One and Muhammad Peace be Upon him is the true and Last messenger of Allah are Muslims.

Fasial i dont want to continue arguments on this topic. our disscussion is already too long.

I am going to lock this topic.

thanks for all the participants.

May Allah Guide us towards the right path.

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